The USAF had their chance to darken the skies over any battlefield with hundreds of RPVs - on the scale of WWII bomber attacks - using expert 19-year-old Airmen First Class (raised from birth on video games) as operators of these craft from in-theater bases not particularly far from the battle. Plentiful in number, far less-expensive to train, and without delusions of bearing an "S" on their chests, these enlisted operators would have done good-to-excellent service in the role.
Had the USAF chosen to ignore the whines of its internal ruling class over the possibility of diminished influence - and done so - the 'class war' subject of this thread wouldn't exist today.
UAV's definitely play a major role in our current military ops. However, they are payload limited and probably will be in the foreseeable future. Hence, the need for manned "fighter jets" and bombers that can carry those big things that "go boom in the night."
Hippo: The need for manned combat aircraft still exists - in numbers far greater than are currently in service; but it is of critical importance that these aircraft be fully capable of every mission (air superiority, ground attack, and nuclear strike) at all times, using any munition in the inventory that it can physically carry. That is, it must NOT depend solely upon 'smart' weapons in order to accurately destroy the target on the first pass.
You mentioned the payload limitations inherent in current RPVs - and it is indeed a serious problem. However, this same sort of minimal payload problem has always been a serious limitation in the F-16 as well (two not very large bombs) - and it seems that the F-35 will suffer from the exact same problem as the POS it is designed to replace. The F-35 (and to a lesser extent, the F-22) get something of a pass on this in order to maintain stealth by using a small bomb bay and miniaturized munitions. At least the F-22 will have the capability to carry external full-sized stores after total air supremacy over the enemy has been established. The F-16 already uses external carriage for both of its tens-of-thousands-of-dollar 'smart' bombs, and both 'fire-and-forget' AIM-120s or AIM-9s.
Fighter jocks are a special breed; they deserve the most capable vehicles we can provide them. The sexy-looking, fly-up-your-own-butt F-16 has never been in the running when it comes to all-around combat capabilities.
Hippo-san is well versed in what it takes to be at the pointy end of the tactical aviation spear. I grudgingly note that his combat experience exceeds my contributions.
The need for manned combat aircraft still exists - in numbers far greater than are currently in service; but it is of critical importance that these aircraft be fully capable of every mission (snip)
Hippo sends:
Dunno about that "fully capable of every mission" stuff. Sounds like a 21st century F-4 to me (g). Speaking as one who sat nuke alert at Osan and Kunsan from 1968-71, I would be happy to let UAV's do it!!! I prefer to go to war with folks who specialize in doing one thing only and doing it really well. I agree that fifth generation fighters have a lot of "magic" in the cockpit but the stick and rudder operator is the real tiebreaker when it comes to defeating one's adversary. As for smart bombs, I worked with the Paveway I guys at Ubon in 1968 and employed them as a fast FAC in 1972/73. Hence I will admit to a certain bias in their favor. In addition, it sure would have been nice to have a standoff weapon that would have kept Raz and yours truly a bit further from downtown Hanoi when we were participating in the Southeast Asia war games back in the day.
Thanks for the kind words from Raz, but I can't carry his helmet bag when it comes to combat experience. Guys who flew combat tours in the Thud and then went back for more in the Phantom are my own personal heroes.
10 comments:
If memory serves, DFCs and Air Medals with "V" device were issued to some drone operators before finally being "kebashed." regards, Alemaster
I've flown well over 1,000 missions in LOMAC. That make me a pilot too?
What is a LOMAC?
The USAF had their chance to darken the skies over any battlefield with hundreds of RPVs - on the scale of WWII bomber attacks - using expert 19-year-old Airmen First Class (raised from birth on video games) as operators of these craft from in-theater bases not particularly far from the battle. Plentiful in number, far less-expensive to train, and without delusions of bearing an "S" on their chests, these enlisted operators would have done good-to-excellent service in the role.
Had the USAF chosen to ignore the whines of its internal ruling class over the possibility of diminished influence - and done so - the 'class war' subject of this thread wouldn't exist today.
Log on to:
http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/drinkingsongs/mp3s/2000s/2003ca-live-at-the-sand-trap-by-dos-gringos-%28CD%29/
Scroll down to Predator Eulogy for a taste of Dos Gringos' view of the Predator and all it stands for.
UAV's definitely play a major role in our current military ops. However, they are payload limited and probably will be in the foreseeable future. Hence, the need for manned "fighter jets" and bombers that can carry those big things that "go boom in the night."
Hippo: The need for manned combat aircraft still exists - in numbers far greater than are currently in service; but it is of critical importance that these aircraft be fully capable of every mission (air superiority, ground attack, and nuclear strike) at all times, using any munition in the inventory that it can physically carry. That is, it must NOT depend solely upon 'smart' weapons in order to accurately destroy the target on the first pass.
You mentioned the payload limitations inherent in current RPVs - and it is indeed a serious problem. However, this same sort of minimal payload problem has always been a serious limitation in the F-16 as well (two not very large bombs) - and it seems that the F-35 will suffer from the exact same problem as the POS it is designed to replace.
The F-35 (and to a lesser extent, the F-22) get something of a pass on this in order to maintain stealth by using a small bomb bay and miniaturized munitions. At least the F-22 will have the capability to carry external full-sized stores after total air supremacy over the enemy has been established.
The F-16 already uses external carriage for both of its tens-of-thousands-of-dollar 'smart' bombs, and both 'fire-and-forget' AIM-120s or AIM-9s.
Fighter jocks are a special breed; they deserve the most capable vehicles we can provide them.
The sexy-looking, fly-up-your-own-butt F-16 has never been in the running when it comes to all-around combat capabilities.
Dweezil,
Hippo-san is well versed in what it takes to be at the pointy end of the tactical aviation spear. I grudgingly note that his combat experience exceeds my contributions.
Sorry, Hippo; I didn't know your background.
Mea Maxima Culpa, Ed.
Dweezil Dwarftosser said...
The need for manned combat aircraft still exists - in numbers far greater than are currently in service; but it is of critical importance that these aircraft be fully capable of every mission (snip)
Hippo sends:
Dunno about that "fully capable of every mission" stuff. Sounds like a 21st century F-4 to me (g). Speaking as one who sat nuke alert at Osan and Kunsan from 1968-71, I would be happy to let UAV's do it!!! I prefer to go to war with folks who specialize in doing one thing only and doing it really well. I agree that fifth generation fighters have a lot of "magic" in the cockpit but the stick and rudder operator is the real tiebreaker when it comes to defeating one's adversary. As for smart bombs, I worked with the Paveway I guys at Ubon in 1968 and employed them as a fast FAC in 1972/73. Hence I will admit to a certain bias in their favor. In addition, it sure would have been nice to have a standoff weapon that would have kept Raz and yours truly a bit further from downtown Hanoi when we were participating in the Southeast Asia war games back in the day.
Thanks for the kind words from Raz, but I can't carry his helmet bag when it comes to combat experience. Guys who flew combat tours in the Thud and then went back for more in the Phantom are my own personal heroes.
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